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Interrogist Nov 11 '13
So tell me, how is this any different from teaching a child to be baptized, bow to the cross, or eat Jesus crackers?

As I see it, programing a kid to act or believe a certain way before they reach the age of philosophical reason, is indoctrination plain and simple, even if its Satanism or the lhp.

This just adds to my dislike of all things LaVeyan.
JasinElric Nov 11 '13
That's a pretty goofy picture.

Kids are indoctrinated to belief systems everywhere around them.  Flip on an episode of any Nick Jr. show, talk to any teacher, kids are having philosophies shoved down their tiny throats constantly.  I'm not defending LaVey and whatever the fuck he's doing in this picture, but as I see it, either you steer your child's paradigm, or someone else will.  Clearly some people make irrational choices, but there's the reason if you were looking for one.

Ghostly1 Nov 11 '13
I agree.

If anything you should leave them out of it and let them decide what is right when they are old enough to make that choice themselves.  Trading one dogma for another is just changing the flavor but not the programming.  

SIN_JONES Nov 12 '13
Cross posting is annoying Darryl, do you want to be known as that annoying guy?
FemaleSatan Nov 12 '13
How did you not know about this? The fact that LaVey baptized Zeena to Satan in a ceremony is a well known fact. Hell, in my copy of the TSW she talks about how much she enjoyed the experience. 

LaVey's kids are fucked up, this is also a well known fact. 

I just see it as another get the media to go 'OMG' stunt he pulled. *shrug* 

CanisMachina Nov 12 '13

I am not a parent, nor do I plan to be at any point in my life, but from my standpoint a child is going to be influenced in one way or another. There will be key influences that shape their views well before the age of philosophical reason. Who would you trust to do that? Because it will happen one way or another. Children mimic what they observe. 'Programming' is inevitable. 


Should a philosophical ideology be pushed by the parent? No, and in this regard I agree that raising a child a LaVeyan Satanist differs little from the MO of a Christian.  


Using myself as an example. My parents held independent thought and exploration of science above any religious dogma. Yet they did influence me. They didn't push me down any particular path, but what I saw them do sure influenced the path I eventually chose. In one instance a fundamentalist Christian down the street yelled at them for not teaching me the nativity of Christmas. I saw this and it left a distasteful impression of religion, even at 6. Even more I saw their reaction to it.


My point is even absence of religious indoctrination is a form of indoctrination, just one based in logic (sans the doctrine). A child's mind forms ideology through observation, so  parental influence is important.

The Forum post is edited by CanisMachina Nov 12 '13
AnnaCzereda Nov 12 '13

Darryl, one difference between adults and children is that children don't have enough knowledge and experience to really think in an independent way. I don't want to say that kids don't think for themselves at all, because they do. However, you get knowledge and experience gradually as you grow up. And you are constantly under someone's influence, even as an adult. Even now what you read, watch and listen to shapes your mind, and the people around you have some influence on how you perceive the reality.


As others said, if you don't set an example, others will do that; school teachers, local preachers, other kids. Let's not forget about television and internet, they are great teachers too. You can't protect your child against all outside influence, but you can offer an alternative. It doesn't have to be indoctrination, it can be subtle influence. As a parent, you should know the best how to bring up your child.

The Forum post is edited by AnnaCzereda Nov 12 '13
Interrogist Nov 12 '13

Quote from AnnaCzereda

As a parent, you should know the best how to bring up your child.

This sounds like some egalitarian bullshit Anna. You cannot establish a standard of your own without drawing lines which denote other standards as failing. No matter your standard, someone will oppose it. Are you saying that everyone is automatically correct by default of having reproduced?

It is wholly hypocritical to take a stance against established orthodoxy, only to turn around and create a doctrine of your own which also aims to indoctrinate children. This is not due to some moral hangup on abusing children, but due to my views pertaining to children being the weakest (philosophical) link.

Children should be taught HOW to think, not WHAT to think. If your philosophy is worth looking in to, it should be able to withstand adult scrutiny.
The Forum post is edited by Interrogist Nov 12 '13
AnnaCzereda Nov 12 '13
Darryl, I said "As a parent, you should know the best how to bring up your child." If you don't know how to bring up your child or you think someone else will do it better, then you can always rely on the state, some church or other kids to bring up your child for you. Just don't complain if you don't like the results.
Ghostly1 Nov 12 '13
Quote from jack_macleod Kids are mimics.  If you don't set an example, someone else will.  If you don't teach them your values, someone else will teach them theirs. 
I also agree with this.  Which is why I advocate answering all their questions when they ask them and not making something up.  Sin's method is actually what I refer to.  She knows her son will have questions and she answers them with a broad explanation with many tangents.  Give them enough information to make an informed choice.  

praxi Nov 12 '13

Children should be taught HOW to think, not WHAT to think.


Took the words right out of my mouth. While it is true children will always be influenced by certain outside forces (which you or I may consider detrimental or limiting), encouraging them to ask questions and develop critical thinking skills early on can help shield them from said forces. 'Tis why home schooling is the only way I'd go if I felt the need to spawn.

thedeadidea Nov 13 '13
To be honest you could do worst than a LaVeyan upbringing though a proper one. Like christians it is few and far between before you can go that man/woman is earnest to their professed philisophy/ideology/beliefs. 

At least that child might not develop hickups about naked bodies, but might on the other hand have the tendency to dress like a clown. I am also unsure of how involved said child is in the 'church' from a single photo. 

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