Feminism Really Means Equality? | Forum

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XiaoGui17 Nov 12 '13
So I saw Female Satan post this on Facebook...

Okay, yet another post about "Well, feminism REALLY means equality."  The problem is that those who vocally declare themselves feminists are, more often than not, the most judgmental types.

The vast majority of self-described feminists have more narrow notions of what women (and men!) are allowed to do and what they should do than most fundie Christians.  You can't make a joke about this, you can't have this kind of relationship, you can't have this kind of sex, you can't wear that, you can't have that career (or lack thereof).

It's maddening.  These "feminists" essentially claim that every facet, every aspect, every waking second and minor decision in a woman's life must be spent fighting "patriarchy" in every conceivable fashion.  They're like vegans that make sure their rug isn't part wool, that their mascara doesn't contain beeswax, that their toothbrush wasn't even tested on animals.  They place incredible moral weight on the most minor and inconsequential matters, placing every person in a squeeze where the only acceptable way to live is exactly as they have prescribed.

So my reaction to all the feminists out there insisting that feminism is equality and freedom and all that nice-sounding crap is the same challenge that Dan Savage made to the NALT Christians:  Don't tell us that.  Tell your sisters in feminism.

The NALT Christian will insist that Jesus is all above love.  Judge not lest ye be judged, take the pole out of your eye, don't cast the first stone, and all that sweet sounding stuff.  That being the case, they'll run a constant PR campaign following behind the trail of bad impressions left by the Westboro Baptist Church.  They'll try to mend impressions, insisting, "We're not all like that (NALT)."  So if the other folks are doing the Jesus thing wrong, maybe you should be, I don't know, telling them that.

Feminism is about my freedom to choose what kind of relationship/ career/ lifestyle I want?  Feminism is about being respected for my own choices?  Then tell it to those who call themselves feminists, because apparently, most of them missed that memo.

99 times out of 100, when I dress in provocative or revealing clothing, the person giving me shit is not some man saying I'm a slut or asking to be raped.  No, it's some self-described feminist saying I'm objectifying myself.  When I have kink-tastic sex that I love, I don't get crap from men telling me women are there for men's pleasure and not their own.  No, I get crap from some self-described feminist saying that BDSM perpetuates patriarchal power dynamics.  And so on, and so forth.

If you want better PR for feminism, do some housecleaning. Maybe do something about those who are ruining feminism's image.  They are the reason people shy away from the term "feminist."
SammieSam Nov 12 '13
This is why I'll never consider myself a feminist, fuck those people, they are completely insane.

Every time I look at what the rad fems are doing, it's something stupid like bitching about how video games are sexist and it's destroying the world, or some dude said "dongle" to his friend at a tech conference and a fem bitch reported it, or how everything is men's fault. Fuck that, I don't give a shit. 

XiaoGui17 Nov 12 '13
The real problem is that we're not oppressed anymore.  Women should be free to make their own choices, live their own lives?  We have that.  We've got pretty much everything we could ever want, and then some.  And now they're bitter that they're no longer relevant.

The only lingering forms of so-called "oppression" fall under 6 well-defined categories:

(1) The result of free choice.  Go figure, some women choose to be homemakers instead of a careerists.  And some take maternity leave.  And some quit their job when they get a rich husband.  Surprise, surprise, there's a "wage gap."  Some women like to be spanked.  Some women want to have a lot of kids.  Some women like wearing heels and makeup and skirts.

Feminist solution?  Fuck free choice!  Your free choices aren't embodying this utopia I envisioned.

(2) The result of physiological differences.  Fewer women can pass physical strength tests necessary for certain forms of manual labor?  You don't say?  There are more male than female rapists?  You don't say?

Feminist solution?  Deny, deny, deny!  Women aren't different from men at all!  We're completely identical.  It MUST be duh pay-tree-ar-kee that causes this."  (Ever read A Wrinkle In Time?  Like and equal are not the same at all.)

(3) So small it's basically irrelevant.  Some obscure-ass MRM blogger or Baptist preacher said something sexist?  You don't say?  How many people are listening to him?  Does he have any impact on anyone's life?  A marketing study showed (ZOMG) that women buy more chocolate than men?  That's terrible!  Obviously a biased study done for the sole purpose of perpetuating the total myth of PMS and hormones and crap!

Feminist solution?  Blow it up!  Pretend it's just the tip of the iceberg, a single visible sign of a massive sexism/ rape culture/ pay-tree-ar-kee monster lurking beneath the surface!  Every man is secretly thinking that, he's just the one who said it out loud!

(4) It hits men harder.  Child support, custody, domestic violence, false accusations and convictions, etc.

Feminist solution?  It doesn't exist!  Anyone who claims that it does is just some rape apologist looking for an excuse to hate women!

(5) It's just the result of bad people existing.  Sure, it's really horrible that some guys brutally raped, tortured, mutilated, and killed a woman.  But is this really a sign that our whole society needs to be overhauled to eradicate "rape culture"?  It could have been that the rapist was abused as a child, or had a mental illness, or was a cold-blooded sonofabitch.

Feminist solution?  Every single thing that ever happens is just a part of the massive feminism vs. patriarchy struggle!  Nothing is ever an isolated or unrepresentative incident.  Nothing bad ever happens that can't be blamed on the patriarchy.  Nothing is ever not a part of some massive social struggle about all women everywhere.

(6) It doesn't exist in the West.  Female genital mutilation, arranged child marriage, acid attacks, bride burning, mandatory veils, driving bans, lack of education for young girls.

Feminist solution?  Invoke it every time someone asks why feminism is still relevant.  Use it as a pity card to guilt others into calling themselves feminists.  Then promptly ignore it, don't do crap about it, and go back to whining about issue types 1 through 5.
Dan_Dread Nov 12 '13
What I want to know is...

..where are all the masculists?

CanisMachina Nov 12 '13

Quote from Dan_Dread
What I want to know is...

..where are all the masculists?

They exist I assure you... In steel mills, 24 hour gyms, and fetish clubs around the world.
The Forum post is edited by CanisMachina Nov 12 '13
AnnaCzereda Nov 12 '13

I have mixed feelings about feminism. On one hand I know feminists often talk out of their ass and I sometimes have a feeling they organise pointless debates about nothing. On the other hand, it can be a strong lobby, necessary in certain circumstances.


Sometimes politicians come up with really stupid ideas. For example, a few years ago some Polish minister (it was a woman, by the way) came up with a silly idea of the obligatory pap test for all women who wanted to work. She didn't have bad intentions really. A lot of women die of cervical cancer so first she just sent invitations for free examination. However, the majority of women didn't care even if they didn't have to pay a penny for that. So she just wanted to lead them to the doctor by force. It was to become an obligatory examination that was required if you wanted to work.


It was then that the feminists nearly lynched the poor woman, using their usual discourse. That she discriminates women, degrades them, that their intimacy is going to be violated, that guys should also have their cocks examined obligatorily and so on. Finally, they managed to turn the prime minister against her and in the end she was forced to give up her "project".


It's not some serious shit, I know, but it's not up to the government to send you to the doctor by force, especially if you are an adult. It's up to you to make such decisions.


I think sometimes women are discriminated. Take for example abortion. Not everywhere it is legal to have it on demand. And if we have a religious lobby, we need the feminist one as well to oppose it somehow. I do agree with you, XG, that everyone should be careful with feminists because they have some foolish ideas too. However, there are some Polish feminists that I actually like and respect.

SammieSam Nov 12 '13
Quote from XiaoGui17 (6) It doesn't exist in the West.  Female genital mutilation, arranged child marriage, acid attacks, bride burning, mandatory veils, driving bans, lack of education for young girls. Feminist solution?  Invoke it every time someone asks why feminism is still relevant.  Use it as a pity card to guilt others into calling themselves feminists.  Then promptly ignore it, don't do crap about it, and go back to whining about issue types 1 through 5.

This shit right here. 
thedeadidea Nov 12 '13
Feminism is like philosophy some of it is useful, some of it is absurd and most of it is completely impractical and useless. If you really want to escape gender conformism go psychology... 

1. Get yourself an understanding of Behaviourism

2. Build in an exercise of conscious attention

3. Construct schemas of modified selected behaviours

4. Modify your own behaviour

To much in feminism is like racisim or some other political ideology that comes for most people with a bag of fucking bricks called liberal guilt. To much of the humanities say think globally, the truth is most people couldn't give a fuck about most feminist hypothesis as utterly trivial. 

You show me a petition to remove gender based pay from all buisnesses I'll probably sign it. If you hand me a survey about the divide of domestic duties or spending time with the kids. I'll tell you to blow me because I honestly couldn't care less. There are women all over the place quite happy doing what they are doing. Sure they come in via herd mentalities but then the liberal sensibility of 50/50 distribution of dishwashing is more fucktarded.... In that instead of blindly following they are 'critically thinking' and quantifying this shit.(I assure you this does exist) 

They do this of course because where sexual objectification does occur music, movies, entertainment, fashion basically anything with big $$$ signs. This will be viewed as counter economic interests and violation of freedom of speech and expression. So they can only pick on ethnic/ideological minorities, moderate Islam and the everyday folk like you and I. 

Some of this shit is just common sense 

- If you got a lazy ass husband make him work more around the house

- If you don't want to be judged on basis of being a woman stay away from the (bitch, skank, whore language games yourself) and immunize your mind to their effect.

- If you feel disadvantaged based on gender launch a lawsuit or contact an organization for one on your behalf

-If you feel strongly about violence/sexual abuse volunteer, encourage victims to report and build in negative reinforcement of a culturally existent behaviour. 

Ask not what feminism can do for you but what you can do for yourself. Think locally to derive the power, means and method to improve your condition. Think globally to get the lay of the land, don't let socio- (insert numerous prefixes) get a grab of you, this shit ain't rain you don't need to seek shelter. You'd be surprised how many knee jerk you get anger, confusion, guilt, sadness & excitement (watch out for those fucks that get excited....) 

My advice would be in the first place don't shit yourself take several steps back, take what is useful and put the rest to the side. Some feminists seem fair minded, practical and reasonable on the other end of the spectrum some are  just fucking cunt zealots and we can start wracking up a list of names if you want to get specific.

Also there is the other side of the coin to. I think men typically get a better deal but there are a few things. 

- Girl  who cried Assault/Sexual Assault is a to common occurence with to fewer penalties 

- The mother ain't always the best parent by default 

Shit like that. 


Also the whole premise of liberal guilt is prohibitive or moral codification of behavior often derived (in the bat shit case) from Critical Theory which is more or less like an atheistic version of occultism. Humor helps dilute tensions so on that note next time I know where a gaggle of angry feminists are I am going to go flash them my dick and say "GET ON YOUR KNEES QUICK YOU CAN SUCK OUT MY VIRILITY"


The Forum post is edited by thedeadidea Nov 12 '13

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