Obstructing Justice | Forum

Topic location: Forum home » Main Forum » Politics
SIN_JONES
SIN_JONES Nov 25 '13

More charges in the Steubenville Rape Case

 

The special grand jury convened in Steubenville had investigated whether adults like coaches or school administrators knew of the rape allegation but failed to report it as required by state law.

 

DeWine said the case initially was about the teenagers involved but had become just as much about the adults, including the parents.  "How do you hold kids accountable if you don't hold the adults accountable?"

 

 

Superintendent Mike McVey was formally charged, adding to the list Obstruction of Justice.

 

Having alleged knowledge of allegation/rumor is considered Obstructing Justice.  If you happen to be in a position of power, you don't have the right to remove yourself from the situation nor a license for apathy. 

 

"With great power, comes great responsibility..."

 

Discuss

 

Ghostly1
Ghostly1 Nov 25 '13
This ties in to people suing gun manufacturers when one of their products is used in killing another human being.  A mothers son murdered 20 innocent children and several teachers, for no reason we can hear about yet as the evidence is still being withheld.  Would she be charged with the crime of having a child with mental issues had she not been killed by the same boy?


Not all parents, or adults know 100% of what is going on with their kids when they are not in the same room.  Children will always keep secrets from their parents or teachers simply because adults are always telling them what to do.  That's how they get punished and what they don't know wont hurt us.  


You have to be able to prove the adults in question knowingly withheld information instead of it being convenient to blame whoever is around.  Like a child getting sick after raiding his parents liquor cabinet and everyone blaming the adult as if they were the ones who bought it for the child.  Should it be enough the alcohol was under lock and key?   Shouldn't the mother of Adam Lanza have had her weapons locked up around a child with known mental issues?  


There is too much finger pointing instead of dealing with the issue of rape itself...and the justification the rapists used to commit the crime.

SIN_JONES
SIN_JONES Nov 25 '13

I've seen consensus opinion that Mike McVey not only knew the boys raped the girl, they talked in great detail about it among peers and he was privy to some of those conversations.    The outrage comes from the public that sees McVey protecting these boys, rather than reporting what he knew to Law Enforcement.  Maybe he did have a vested interest in protecting these kids, realizing how truly foolish they had been.  You tend to protect your own.

 

If your own kid killed someone, do you report it or Obstruct Justice?  You damn skippy you Obstruct!

 

On one hand you have a bunch of young men, boys, being opportunists.   Sure, they used the word 'rape' but I don't think they really believed or understood what they did was actual rape and the consequences thereof.  Otherwise, they wouldn't have video taped bragging rights.

 

On the other you have a young girl that left herself vulnerable to predators.  Had she not seen the video, she probably wouldn't have even remembered what her body was put through while her mind was taking a nap.  It's possible she may have remembered it later, confirming it through the rumor and gossip being circulated by spectators.  Should she feel safe among her peers?  Something led her to believe she'd be safe.

 

Holding adults responsible is setting an example for the youth.  A clear message:  Not only will you not get away with this shit but neither will your protectors.  It keeps adults on their toes too.  A good percentage of crimes go unsolved...

 

 

 

 

 

Ghostly1
Ghostly1 Nov 25 '13
"A clear message:  Not only will you not get away with this shit but neither will your protectors.  It keeps adults on their toes too."


In this I agree completely.  But I was taking the tack of not knowing the truth and being brought up on charges for being ignorant.  Willfully hiding the truth in the manner you described is also accurate in that parents will always try to protect their children, and secondly their own images.  No one wants to be the parent of the rapist at the PTO meetings.  


But let's be honest, how many times have parents warned kids about drinking, being safe, looking both ways when crossing the street, etc.  Unfortunately sometimes some lessons must be learned the hard way because wisdom and experience is put aside for the sake of looking cool or entertainment.  

CanisMachina
CanisMachina Nov 25 '13

"With special contributions comes special treatment."

 

When this story surfaced I couldn't help being reminded of the movie Stir of Echoes. Same principles apply.

 

1. Parents/teachers/coaches save themselves from embarrassment of being linked to the individual publicly and escape likely blame, which is usually leveled in cases like this.

 

2. In Ohio football is a way of life. A high school football star in a small town is as close to celebrity as a teenager can get. They were in the crosshairs of college scouts. It was probably a case of "Don't let a stupid hormonal decision ruin their lives... and of course we need them to win state." 

 

It is fair to say if the perpetrators resembled Columbine's "Trench Coat Mafia" no effort to cover up their actions would have ever taken place.

The Forum post is edited by CanisMachina Nov 25 '13
Ghostly1
Ghostly1 Nov 25 '13
We can go even further and make note of all the crimes committed by members of the Catholic church against children.  Of course it was buried by the Vatican.  it still ended up costing them money, and a level of trust but it only took a little time before the sheep calmed down enough to return to the feeding trough.  
praxi
praxi Nov 25 '13

But let's be honest, how many times have parents warned kids about drinking, being safe, looking both ways when crossing the street, etc.  Unfortunately sometimes some lessons must be learned the hard way because wisdom and experience is put aside for the sake of looking cool or entertainment. 

Yes. Maybe. Sometimes. Do they have to be?

In situations like these I am admittedly a bit torn. You see, I'd like to think I'm an understanding and open-minded kind of gal. I realize that at its core our society is rotten - so very, very rotten - and most are just caught up in it, oblivious to their taint. It's not really their fault, you know? Knowing and trapped (or worse - apathetic) is one thing, but how can you comprehend that which cannot be conceived? It's kind of sad to me. This is why I feel for parents who are sincere and trying their best. Or what they feel is their best. What they can perceive as their best.

However, I also cannot help but call bullshit. If you make babies, you are responsible to a very large extent for not only their physical and intellectual development, but their emotional development as well (in my mind this would even extend into early adulthood to a point). And yes, there certainly are some lessons children and adolescents need to learn themselves, but these boys lack even the most basic sense of empathy and respect for life. Whose fault is that? In my mind it's a one-two punch: social influence and parenting fail to negate said influence. I mean, at what point do they - we? - draw the line between "boys will be boys" and "that's some effed up shit that needs to not happen?" Or "let 'em learn the hard way!" and "lynch the parents to set an example?"

SIN_JONES
SIN_JONES Nov 25 '13
Quote from ClaudeRains

"With special contributions comes special treatment."


Absolutely. 

 

You can understand the position of those that tried to help those boys.  Equally, you have people outraged because rape is a special kind of crime, isn't it?

 


 

SIN_JONES
SIN_JONES Nov 25 '13

Quote from praxi
 In my mind it's a one-two punch: social influence and parenting fail to negate said influence. I mean, at what point do they - we? - draw the line between "boys will be boys" and "that's some effed up shit that needs to not happen?" Or "let 'em learn the hard way!" and "lynch the parents to set an example?"


That' the thing, a lot of these Laws and carrying out the 'process' is much a part of that 1-2 punch.  A line is drawn in the sand and the chips can fall on either side.

 

Think about it.

 

If the evidence wasn't damning enough, these kids would walk.  Not only would they walk, they would be self-affirmed.

 

Their own stupidity sealed their doom.  Should we blame the parents for that too?  Whether parental guidance, societal conditioning, etc.  the most influential is that of your Peers.   Even more so when you're young and very impressionable.

 

 

Ghostly1
Ghostly1 Nov 25 '13
I think we as a "collective" can agree to sit on the fence for this one.  


I do see the burden of being a parent as all consuming. Your children being a direct reflection on you, and your involvement in their lives and development.  But you cannot be around them 100% of the time, because most children/teenagers will feel smothered and lash out just because they are subconsciously fighting the restriction.  Remember a unrealized action can lead to compulsion, and I don't think children are immune to this fact either.  Either peer pressure or curiosity can still lead them down that road of criminal and amoral behavior.  Age or lack of experience aside they are still human beings and prone to the same temptations we are.  


Stupidity should be painful.  If your parents teach you drinking leads to hangovers, bad decisions you may regret later or any other combination and you do so anyway you deserve what you get.  If my daughter was raped I would want to kill those responsible.  I think we touched on that in another thread, protecting your own.  But do we take all the responsibility away from the victim who did in fact put herself in that position?  There is a common trend of blaming the victim for crime like rape....she didn't ask for it, or have the ability to say no.  But at the same time it doesn't take away from the severity of the crime in question.  The boys should be punished.  The victim will have to learn not to put herself in that position again, and the parents/teachers/coaches should be held accountable in as much as can be proven.  Speculating they knew and proving they knew are different and should be taken into account.


Responsibility to the responsible, yes?  Guilt where appropriate, regret where appropriate.  


The Forum post is edited by Ghostly1 Nov 25 '13
SIN_JONES
SIN_JONES Nov 25 '13
Obstructing 'justice' is just another contention to vilify the attempt, create villains and part ways with the abhorrent.   People do dumb shit.  People do dumb shit and get caught.  Some people get away with it and with no target to project blame upon, people feel that justice can't be served.


You know what's just?  Putting yourself in a compromising position and getting what you deserve.





thedeadidea
thedeadidea Nov 25 '13
Live and Die in the victories and defeat of your own Will. I would happily cover tracks in the snow for a few people to the exclusion of considerations of Justice. Questions like these are not easy and tend to either be militantly trivialized in extremes of liberal conscience or anti-authoritarianism.  Yet what would you do for those you really care about ? How much does one's pride and bonds count for truth?  I dare say for functional families and close friends a crime or two covered up is just a fucking way of life. Even if it isn't driving up a mountain with a corpse in the stationwagon. It would be something else and the something else would be apart of a set of private interpersonal relationships taken to the grave. Not many fit into this kind of group for me though.


 If I happened to catch wind of a rumor and I didn't have any great attachment to them. I'd probably say nothing but if the cops knocked on my door I'd give them the information they were looking for without the slightest bit of hesitation. For in my mind I wouldn't have sold out a person but just a stranger, another name and another face to whom I am indifferent.







The Forum post is edited by thedeadidea Nov 25 '13
Ghostly1
Ghostly1 Nov 25 '13
Sin: My sentiments exactly.
The Forum post is edited by Ghostly1 Nov 25 '13
CanisMachina
CanisMachina Nov 25 '13


 

Quote from SIN_JONES

You can understand the position of those that tried to help those boys.  Equally, you have people outraged because rape is a special kind of crime, isn't it?

Subtract the emotional response and...

 

It seems the immediate focus was on damage control. "Erase this from existence, cover our asses".  But in this world of online interconnectivity word spreads fast, especially when its texted, tweeted, instagrammed, and facebooked. So containment is almost assured to be fruitless, especially considering the overwhelming view towards rape. 

 

The victim is what makes the crime 'special'. The more vulnerable the victim - the worse the offence is considered. Now it gets special treatment. The more taboo the crime, the more the victim resonates with the key demographic, the more it will be sensationalized by the media. Same reason Natalee Holloway was in the news for months on end.

 

The Forum post is edited by CanisMachina Nov 25 '13
SIN_JONES
SIN_JONES Nov 26 '13
And, people are watching to include Social Analysts (emphasis on the Anal) that connect dots and call the cops.  Had that not occurred, would things have tuned out differently?  I guess we'll never know...
SIN_JONES
SIN_JONES Nov 26 '13

A note on the 'Good Samaritan' :

 

These people are serving a need, a need within themselves.  It's a wholly selfish act masked as selflessness.

 

Michael's example, his indifference, is a form of this. 

timishardcore
timishardcore Nov 26 '13

Quote from SIN_JONES

 

If your own kid killed someone, do you report it or Obstruct Justice?  You damn skippy you Obstruct!

 


 You Who?   Sorry but my principles and honor and such don't care who you are in certain situations for me blood is not thicker than water and there is no such thing has "bros before hoes" as it were. I will say this to give a little idea of where I am coming from.

 

 1) If the Nazi's are banging on my door, I will obstruct their form of justice and lie about those dozen Jews in my basement.

 

 2) If I find the body of my Son's girlfriend in my basement all beaten and bloodied, I will not obstruct justice and call the cops.

 

  This is why gangs, groups and the like have never really appealed to me in any internal sense. My Code is my code, don't get me involved in things that cross my lines on honor and principals. It shows a lack of respect. 

SIN_JONES
SIN_JONES Nov 26 '13
It was a generalized 'you' Tim.  If this sort of thing crosses your line in the sand, fair enough.  For me, I hold no moral obligation to draw an Authority to my doorstep.  I am that Authority.
timishardcore
timishardcore Nov 26 '13

Quote from SIN_JONES
It was a generalized 'you' Tim.  If this sort of thing crosses your line in the sand, fair enough.  For me, I hold no moral obligation to draw an Authority to my doorstep.  I am that Authority.


I know it was generalized, give me some credit plz :)

 

 Is it a "moral" issue or a "don't get me caught up in your stupid mistake and take it like a man" issue?   

 

 #justasking

SIN_JONES
SIN_JONES Nov 26 '13

It wasn't a mistake, if you feel personally slighted I can only speculate that you need to stand out in some way, claiming a moral high ground.

 

 

The Forum post is edited by SIN_JONES Nov 26 '13
Pages: 1 2 »

Issue Reporting

Report any issues to satanhimself@circleofdescent.com. He may, or may not, get back to you in a timely manner.