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AnnaCzereda
AnnaCzereda Dec 12 '13
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation." ~ Oscar Wilde


I've just found an interesting article about conformity. It states that conformity is unavoidable, we are born with it, it is a part of our biological hardware, ensuring our survival. Even if we stand against the group, we usually do it with...another group. So we rebel against the old group, at the same time conforming to the new revolutionary group.

You are a conformist (that is, you are human).


How often and in what situations do you adopt other people's ideas, beliefs or lifestyle? Is the opinion of others important to you and how far would you go to gain respect and acceptance of your family, friends, colleagues or total strangers? How do you feel when you stand apart? Proud of yourself? Uncomfortable? Afraid? Do you worry about what other people will think of you?


Discuss...



Hatepeach
Hatepeach Dec 13 '13
Herd conformity doesn't "offend" me, per se.  Most people truly are chattel and cattle, sacks of potatoes and stacks of paper to be shuffled and shelved by those that have a PLAN. 

But I'm a product of the 90s, I can't sit here and pretend that the primary conditioning I received as a child and a young woman was "conform, conform, conform, be like everybody else, don't stand out..."  I grew up in suburban America, not a Huxley novel, and we were all taught the virtues of Herd Individualism.  There's something grammatically and existentially graceless about being told to "be yourself."    It's all about choices, you see, not challenges.  If a child struggles with mathematics, the first instinct is to find out what he or she is "really suited for," and minimize the deficiency.  The value of effort and delayed sensory gratification is subordinated to the all-important task of determining what sort of peg you are rather than simply straightening out the peg.

In the East there prevails a different school of thought when if comes to individual worth, achievement, and societal expectations.  In short, we knock the kid around a bit until he tries harder.  If you ask me, this approach affords a little more respect to the child and what he is capable of.  Most sociologists agree that this is the most meaningful sense in which "Asians are smarter than we are."

You don't produce Individuals by giving people the widest possible array of options and instructing them to pursue the amusements and pursuits that please them most.  No, Virginia, that's how you produce more capital than you'll know what to do with, but what good is all my favorite music, books, plays, and symposia streaming out of my pocket on demand while Western civilization metastasizes around me?

The Forum post is edited by Hatepeach Dec 13 '13
AnnaCzereda
AnnaCzereda Dec 13 '13
Quote from Hatepeach we were all taught the virtues of Herd Individualism. 

Interesting concept. The herd of individuals. You know...In my country, many adult people, including the married couples, still live with their parents. The reasons for this are purely economic. It's just cheaper. Very few people can afford to buy their own home, unless they get a loan which they have to pay back for a very long time and, nowadays, it is even more difficult than ever to get such a loan. On the other hand, renting a flat takes a great portion of your income. So many people decide to stay with their parents, at least till they have enough money to build or buy their own home.


While I'm not really in favor of married people living together with their parents, because it can cause conflict, I'm aware of certain advantages. If your parents are close to you, they can help you to bring up children while you go to work. It's even better when the family lives in a big house, so that the married couple can have some part of the house entirely for themselves. And if you are not married and your parents aren't prone to conflict, then why the hell should you move out?


To satisfy others, for example. If you live with your parents, you are thought to be a loser. Though it's quite a standard in Poland to live with your parents when you're an adult, it's still a shame. Or, at least, this is what you are being taught.


My friend is single like me. The difference is that I live with my family and she lives alone and she just can't understand how you can be an adult and still not move out. No explanations satisfy her; that I'm not married, that it's cheaper, that it's easier, that it's not so lonely. She just doesn't get it. You simply have to be an "individual", even if it doesn't pay off, even if it sucks.

LeDeluge
LeDeluge Dec 13 '13
The herd of individualism concept is a great marketing technique. I spent 3 years booking shows in various subcultures. The goal is to make each person feel unique ... whilst making them all paying customers. A lot of folks just don't have a strong identity. Thus, you sell it back to them.


In terms of the OP: Family would be the key there. I don't really think about "standing out" or not "standing out". I'm not a major fan of publicity, but I handled it when I had to (for shows etc). I do try to "meet people where they are" when communicating with them. By this. I simply mean communicating in a manner they will understand. I'm not anti-social, but I don't really care about most people all that much. This actually makes it easy to be polite oddly enough. I do enjoy a good night out. Also, I'm pretty serious about the ethics of my profession. The term "individual" is ultimately meaningless. Keep an eye out when you see someone use it a lot. It will often have the opposite meaning.

The Forum post is edited by LeDeluge Dec 13 '13
UserX
UserX Dec 13 '13

Quote from LeDeluge The goal is to make each person feel unique ... whilst making them all paying customers. 

This was what I learned also. I was watching a documentary on world war two sometime ago which actually delved into this topic of "herd individuality."

According to the doc, when America won the war, they/we became broke since the war cost America a lot of money. And so to help the economy the government had a social idea.

The idea was to do PR work to get young adults around the age of 18 to seek independence from their parents/family, to live on their own. If such young adults lived on their own they would then need a job, which would help add new bodies into the work force. More young people living on their own and working meant more consumers. And then later, an ideal called "the American Dream" began to be used, and so on.
The Forum post is edited by UserX Dec 13 '13
AnnaCzereda
AnnaCzereda Dec 14 '13
I'd swear the front page video was inspired by this topic; zebras here, zebras there.


And now Stan and Dan from Sesame Street - A lesson in conformity. It suits here. A link, because for some reason I can't embed it here:


Stan & Dan

LeDeluge
LeDeluge Dec 14 '13
Quote from AnnaCzereda I'd swear the front page video was inspired by this topic; zebras here, zebras there.


And now Stan and Dan from Sesame Street - A lesson in conformity. It suits here. A link, because for some reason I can't embed it here:


Stan & Dan


Haha. The zebra does kind of fit the topic. I think a lot of us are "strong heterodox" regardless of our religious preferences. Thus, it works. The zebra is akin to people who are in the middle. No real identity. They will tend to get eaten up by the lot of us.


@User X: Valid observation. I was describing a form of consumerism in a given context. I think it often proves to be the most difficult for a lot of us. Even satanism/lhp can fall prey to that type of marketing.

XiaoGui17
XiaoGui17 Dec 15 '13
Wow, Hatepeach, you really hit the nail (peg?) on the head.  It sort of makes me sick, this notion that we have to find ourselves, that we can be or do whatever we want, that the world should value us for whatever we are.  It necessitates a cold, hard slap of "You are not a special snowflake and the world only gives a shit about what you can do for it, which probably doesn't involve any of the artsy-fartsy shit you'd rather be doing."
Entropic
Entropic Dec 15 '13
*Insert quip about idealistic vs civil cycles a la Strauss and Howe*
SIN_JONES
SIN_JONES Dec 17 '13

Quote from Entropic It necessitates a cold, hard slap of "You are not a special snowflake and the world only gives a shit about what you can do for it, which probably doesn't involve any of the artsy-fartsy shit you'd rather be doing."
Social poly-morphism begets trend-setters.  The one that doesn't conform to the lot.  Which is how a person can do all that artsy-fartsy shit they'd rather be doing than falling in line with what the world demands of them.  Granted, it doesn't make that person any less human but it does make that human unique to the mass.  

I do agree however that it deals in choices.  We each make a choice and often from choices already made for you.  It's not as if specialism is enforced, it's merely a footnote in programming a labor force to fit the PLAN of a capitalist society.



Genius is Sorrow's Child.


8londe8estie
8londe8estie Dec 19 '13


Premise: Anyone can be a Leftist, it takes no more than to lie to oneself cleverly, inwardly, and deeply. "Free will" is simply the rationale that comes after the cowardly impulse. A Leftist is a subjectivist and escapist. The Leftist cannot cope with Fascism.   

The doer is not separate from the deed. All else is merely subject.

XiaoGui17
XiaoGui17 Dec 20 '13
My message to the Artist formerly known as Hegesias is the same as always:
(1) Motherfucking pick a screen name and stick with it.

(2) Dafuq does your post have to do with this thread?

SIN_JONES
SIN_JONES Dec 20 '13
I understood the message to be that a conformed unit represents a unit of Power.  That, in straying from the form as an impulse is rooted in Cowardliness, an inability to stick to the form. 


The graphic represents Fascism as such a form.  

SIN_JONES
SIN_JONES Dec 20 '13



XiaoGui17
XiaoGui17 Dec 20 '13
Quote from SIN_JONES I understood the message to be that a conformed unit represents a unit of Power.  That, in straying from the form as an impulse is rooted in Cowardliness, an inability to stick to the form. 

Well yeah, there's always a plausible way his graphics and copypasta could tenuously be tied into the thread.  But in general, I get the sense that he's been sitting on it for a while and waiting for a thread that gives him the opportunity.  If that response was made especially for this particular thread, I'm a mongoose.
SIN_JONES
SIN_JONES Dec 20 '13
Well, I'm not on Facebook but I'm fairly certain that there's a cross-over.  People tend to proselytize ideas they feel strongly about.  Doesn't matter what the Nym is, a Tiger doesn't change its stripes.  I'm half tempted to start a thread to give the man a home ;)
XiaoGui17
XiaoGui17 Dec 20 '13
Quote from SIN_JONES People tend to proselytize ideas they feel strongly about

Yeah, he's kind of like Interrogist, only it's all Nietzsche quotes and graphics about the glory of Hitler's dick instead of text tsunamis of Interrogistic methodologies and a progressive revolution.  Meh, maybe I should start a projectile spew of Spencer and Cattell, and start ranting mindlessly about the conspiracy of my imaginary enemies and how weak all you mere "Satanist" mofos are for not joining my cause.


Or I could, you know, participate like I'm an actual human being capable of carrying on a conversation instead of a single-minded, buzzword-scanning, copy-dumping bot.

SIN_JONES
SIN_JONES Dec 20 '13
Quote from XiaoGui17 Or I could, you know, participate like I'm an actual human being capable of carrying on a conversation instead of a single-minded, buzzword-scanning, copy-dumping bot.

Gasp!  You may very well be too rational to be here V. ;)



SIN_JONES
SIN_JONES Jul 31
I've noticed as of late, some 'unnecessary' darkness.  You know, the type that will purposely shun what they actually like because it doesn't fit the image.   They will pretend they don't actually like the Rainbow Unicorn shirt they bought, and pretend it was a gift.  STFU and just wear the shirt.  #Sheep
SIN_JONES
SIN_JONES Jul 31
But that's not what I'm referring to.  I get that angle, this isn't it.  I'm speaking on a person that will suspend their actual likes/desires to fit an image.  Cookiecutter imaging.  Happens in a lot of subcultures.
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