Fatalism Or Freewill | Forum

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Hatepeach Jan 6 '14
Two premises and no conclusion?  

Premise:  People who use the word "epi-phenomenon" where "effect" would be equally appropriate are pretentious snobs.

Premise:  BlondeBestie uses the word "epi-phenomenon" where effect or a more compact expression would be valid and appropriate

Conclusion:  BlondeBestie is a pretentious snob.

Quote from 8londe8estie Consciousness is an observer observing its significance and all significance is epiphenomena of causal phenomena. Consciousness is epiphenomena of causal phenomena and consciousness is determined by causal forces acting upon the biological system beyond conscious apprehension of time and space.

I'm not certain I accept that all significance is dependent upon or caused by event-chains in the physical and Fated universe.  If significance is what is "shown," or indicated by a statement or set of affairs, then this is demonstrably untrue.  The length of a hypotenuse in a right triangle is inferentially indicated (signified) by the lengths of its two remaining sides.  What chain of determined causal phenomena can I point to that underlies that signification?  I can't because I'm describing the relationship between deathless, non-physical, acausal entities, namely the right triangle and its component sides.  The same would prove for any sound mathematical formulation.  The "realm" in which these things are indicated and their mode of signification is transcendent and superior to the physical, causally governed universe.  They belong to the Real, not to mere existence.   

Quote from 8londe8estie We can observe how polar opposite nervous systems owe to different -ologies, -isms, and of course deeds. Free will always corresponds to anxiety and liberalism, whilst fatalism rests among the fearless and fascistic.

I believe that the opposite is true.  The tendency towards certain ideology can have a biological basis, but the ideology *owes* itself to differences in physiology and not the other way round.  I know of one study that demonstrated that politically conservative or authoritarian types produced higher levels of norepinephrine, a neurotransmitter responsible for heightening our awareness of threats and relaying the appropriate response for them.  I would be shocked to find that the ideology gives rise to the hormones and not the other way 'round.  

Quote from 8londe8estie There is absolutely nothing we can do to alter things by willing, because willing and choosing are the unalterable consequences of cosmological forces.

I agree that the sensation of "choosing" is an illusion, and one that we are fated to experience, but not that volition and desire are irrelevant to the outcome of events.  The essence of Fatalism is not hopeless resignation.  So often, it is not the circumstances that we are presented with, but the attitude we assume in front of them that makes ALL the difference.

The Forum post is edited by Hatepeach Jan 7 '14
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