Honour is Loyalty | Forum

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8londe8estie
8londe8estie Oct 12 '13



In my country, broadly speaking, even if you've never taken out a credit card, you're in debt by default, in order to save the banks. A society which is governed as nothing but an outpost of the contingency plan. We no longer make anything really necessary. We have no prime industry; no steel industry; no coal industry; no automobile industry; just consumer goods imported on mass credit.


Much of the modern world is now united by a lack of ambition defined by variants of Liberalism. The now global view, that a country, a society, a community, is all merely a zone, and a kind of international supermarket. There's worse things in life than being labelled a Fascist -- such a person or a group using a term like "racist" to either victimise themselves and/or to publicly insult someone else's honour and loyalty, or to entirely dismiss merit.


There is a growing abundance of youth entering their 20s without ever experiencing anything close to fearless ambition. Their role models are the semblance of adults, who live a mundane lifestyle of base narrow utility which requires a face of moral tolerance and humanity to succeed -- which means to merely exist to keep safe, warm, and to fulfil their grubby mundane compulsions. The inability to see a future worthwhile engulfs the masses in a kind of anxious claustrophobia, where they seek refuge in an evermore centred ego and evermore material attachment. This dishonour and hypocrisy goes mostly unnoticed due to the subversive influence of social engineering across all of the Western world. 


Our enemy falls prey to its lack of ambition and smugness about being clever. We are immune to being labelled a racist, sexist, Fascist. We are immune to those mundane accusations, and hubris mantras, of the Liberal Left.


We are not here to appeal to half-frightened people. Because we know what is more important than intellect is zeal. Through force of character. We are a living example. We inspire in the folk a fearless sense of purpose and conviction. 


Is there ever enough evil and suffering? We’d like to face Plato and Kant, and indeed Jesus Christ, with their own notion of treating others as one would best treat oneself, because we wholeheartedly agree, and as disciples of irony, this means with all due consideration—to harshness and severity.


Because it is our ambition to bring the dawn of an ineffable struggle, which will secure the evolution of an ever stronger type of man—the lionhearted, damned for our violent nature by the piglike, and by their estimate, we are vile bastards, and we only get viler as attempts to undermine us actively encourage us. 


What can you endure? What dictates your worth? The irony of pure fatalism is Victory. The meaning of life is that you die. Seize the opportunity with Honour. The fearless soul set violently ablaze. 


124 yf



The Forum post is edited by 8londe8estie Oct 13 '13
XiaoGui17
XiaoGui17 Oct 14 '13

I've seen the theme of fitness and adversity raised again and again, Ad nauseum.  I absolutely agree that fitness can be measured by enduring, overcoming, and indeed thriving in spite of, or better yet because of, adversity.


What I find deeply silly is the notion that adversity must take a particular form, and the decrying of a particular culture as lacking proper adversity.  Adaptive value is ultimately the ability to overcome any set of circumstances.

When someone says, "This culture isn't adverse enough, it's creating soft people," it ignores the fact that these people are merely adapting in a different manner to a different form of adversity.  I ultimately hear a fish complaining that birds are weak because they can't swim, having failed to face the adversity of water enough to develop proper fins and gills and whatnot.  Meanwhile, the bird is carrying the fish off in its talons, and the fish is going on and on about how strong and badass it would be if only the environment were the correct adverse water.


TLDR: You adapt to the form of adversity you find, not the other way around.

blackshuck
blackshuck Oct 14 '13
What is this "different form of adversity" you're talking about? Living for your own material comfort and nothing else is not a different form of adversity. That's just like calling Atheism a type of religion, or baldness a type of hair-style.
XiaoGui17
XiaoGui17 Oct 14 '13
Quote from blackshuck Living for your own material comfort and nothing else is not a different form of adversity.

Motivation is an internal factor; adversity (at least in the way I described it) is an external factor.  Obviously this is not that to which I refer.  So, FAIL.  How about the next time you ask a rhetorical question, you make sure there isn't an actual answer?


Quote from blackshuck What is this "different form of adversity" you're talking about?


These Nietzsche-quoting, chest-thumping, iron-pumping folks who post shit like this tend to value physical adversity.  In other words, the masculine fantasy of 300 where everyone is shirtless and swinging a huge ol' sword as a surrogate dick at each other.  They decry the social order as softening people because they no longer face as much physical adversity as they once did back in the good old (utterly imaginary) days of spears and clubs and loincloths.


The different form of adversity to which I refer is socioeconomic adversity.  Your ability to cut it in modern society depends more on your Charisma, Intelligence, and Wisdom scores (mental) than your Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution scores (physical).

Regardless of which stat matters, you still have to roll the dice and take the damage if you fail.  It's no less real adversity.  Motivation is irrelevant.  You're talking alignment and I'm talking risk.  Apples and oranges.

blackshuck
blackshuck Oct 14 '13
Motivation is absolutely relevant. Those 300 fought and died for something beyond themselves and their own material gain. Do you think a band of mercenaries would have done the same thing?

Don't get me wrong though, I've got nothing against being cunning and using your wits to gain power. I'm a fan of Robert Greene's books when it comes to that sort of thing. But the physical is primal. It's the bedrock that everything else rests upon.

We sleep safe at night because we are protected by armed, military physical might. If you relied on your wits you would be the fish in the birds talons. It's not just about the warriors and physical violence either. I never said anything about being Leonidas.

I'm a laborer who hauls around cement and lumber in the cold and the rain for 10 - 12 hours a day. That physical vitality built your home and your city and your civilization. Without it you couldn't maintain your civilization.
XiaoGui17
XiaoGui17 Oct 14 '13
Quote from blackshuck Motivation is absolutely relevant. Those 300 fought and died for something beyond themselves and their own material gain. Do you think a band of mercenaries would have done the same thing?

I wasn't saying motivation isn't relevant in the grand scheme of things.  I was saying that, specifically, motivation is irrelevant to the point of establishing whether or not adversity exists in our society.


Quote from blackshuckBut the physical is primal. It's the bedrock that everything else rests upon.

Oh, absolutely.  Don't get me wrong.  I'm not decrying the physical.

To me, the physical and the mental are complimentary.  Without the physical, there would be little more than abstract theory.  Without the mental, there would be little direction to physical development.  Brain and brawn both contribute more for the other being there.


What I scoff at, specifically, are those with more of one or the other who like to give themselves a congratulatory pat on the back for developing the "right" one.  The ultimate ego-shrinker is that both are interdependent.


Of course egghead owes everything that is built and defended to beefy.  Beefy also owes egghead a lot.  He's defending it with an AK-47 instead of a club, wearing body armor instead of a loincloth, and getting patched up with sterile needles and antibiotics instead of...well, you get the idea.

JK
JK Oct 15 '13

Quote from XiaoGui17 Your ability to cut it in modern society depends more on your Charisma, Intelligence, and Wisdom scores (mental) than your Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution scores (physical).

I shoulda known. An oldschool D&D'er. I thought we were an endangered species.

JK
DivineMonkey
DivineMonkey Oct 15 '13

Quote from XiaoGui17
Quote from blackshuck Motivation is absolutely relevant. Those 300 fought and died for something beyond themselves and their own material gain. Do you think a band of mercenaries would have done the same thing?

I wasn't saying motivation isn't relevant in the grand scheme of things.  I was saying that, specifically, motivation is irrelevant to the point of establishing whether or not adversity exists in our society.


Quote from blackshuckBut the physical is primal. It's the bedrock that everything else rests upon.

Oh, absolutely.  Don't get me wrong.  I'm not decrying the physical.

To me, the physical and the mental are complimentary.  Without the physical, there would be little more than abstract theory.  Without the mental, there would be little direction to physical development.  Brain and brawn both contribute more for the other being there.


What I scoff at, specifically, are those with more of one or the other who like to give themselves a congratulatory pat on the back for developing the "right" one.  The ultimate ego-shrinker is that both are interdependent.


Of course egghead owes everything that is built and defended to beefy.  Beefy also owes egghead a lot.  He's defending it with an AK-47 instead of a club, wearing body armor instead of a loincloth, and getting patched up with sterile needles and antibiotics instead of...well, you get the idea.


Oi Cupcake,

we like the people who bring about actual advancement, however not those only centered on their own material gain.

You would not defend these weak individuals if you were not weak yourself.

Regardless, all men should serve one purpose, to live for their leader, who should be the embodiment of their state.

When everything is corrupt, one has no other choice but to endure, to endure to better times.

What is your individuality but a mere speck of selfishness ?
XiaoGui17
XiaoGui17 Oct 15 '13
Quote from DivineMonkey Regardless, all men should serve one purpose, to live for their leader, who should be the embodiment of their state.

And if I reject this premise, do you have any arguments to support it?  Or are you going to stick to calling me Cupcake, weak, and selfish?


#7: I meant complementary, not complimentary.  My excuse is that I was decaffeinated.


#8: We still have a pretty thriving habitat in Austin.

The Forum post is edited by XiaoGui17 Oct 15 '13
8londe8estie
8londe8estie Oct 15 '13
Premise: in the world of wills, there are no truths per se, only interpretations of phenomena and all interpretations are really expressions of power. But just how much is lies Vs. ambition?
XiaoGui17
XiaoGui17 Oct 16 '13
Quote from Bad_Intentions there are no truths per se...just how much is lies

If there are no truths, there are no lies.


Quote from jack_macleod It requires a bit more resolve to say "This society is garbage and needs an overhaul" and it takes true relentlessness to effect the appropriate changes.

Yeah, everyone and their fetus has been tooting that horn.  The irony, though, is that they all seem to have different notions of which direction they want the overhaul to take.  Both Bad Intentions and Interrogist seem to want a dramatic reworking of society, but they seem to have very different ideas what form the new one should take.  Just which change is "appropriate," and why?


So it's simply not sufficient to say, "The status quo sucks."  You have to go a bit further.  What alternative do you propose?  Why is that alternative better?  Is that alternative viable?  How do you plan to put it into action?

These are the questions that Bad Intentions and Interrogist ultimately fail to answer.

8londe8estie
8londe8estie Oct 16 '13
The Forum post is edited by 8londe8estie Oct 16 '13
Dan_Dread
Dan_Dread Oct 16 '13
And that, dear Dimitri, is why you haven't grown an inch in all this time.
FemaleSatan
FemaleSatan Oct 16 '13
Quote from Dimitri There's no need to seek out adversity (as it is practically non-existing).


Wait, what? 

JK
JK Oct 16 '13

Quote from Dimitri I prefer to take a look at someones hands to see their ability to work and the motivation they put behind it.

The fun in poker is in not being able to see your opponent's hand.

Otherwise, betting would be highly unintelligent. In any case.

JK
BeastXeno
BeastXeno Oct 16 '13
Quote from FemaleSatan
Quote from Dimitri There's no need to seek out adversity (as it is practically non-existing).


Wait, what? 


That's called auto-fail darling.
FemaleSatan
FemaleSatan Oct 16 '13
Quote from Dimitri Not really, it just happens to be a matter of different perspectives. Some would see killing a cute little harmless kitten as immoral whereas from another (legal) perspective it can be seen as a necessity to decrease the cat population and the hinder it entails.


You really don't understand the conversation being had do you? 


Once again, you drop something that has nothing to do with anything, it doesn't have shit to do with what you wrote that people are responding to.

timishardcore
timishardcore Oct 16 '13

Quote from Dimitri
I shall make it easier for you: 

Adversity is only in the eye of the beholder. Where you see conflict, others might see practical joking. Adversity is a term devoid of meaning unless there's a personal ascription to it. 

This might be the best statement you have ever made IMO :)
XiaoGui17
XiaoGui17 Oct 16 '13
Quote from Bad_Intentions

Actually, fascism often ends up like this:



In other words, double fail.



XiaoGui17
XiaoGui17 Oct 16 '13
Quote from jack_macleod I don't believe North Korea qualifies as Fascism, given that Fascism has something that North Korea lacks: an economic strategy.



Quote from jack_macleod It is interesting to me to note that many who consider themselves intellectuals and antinomian simply repeat the party line when it comes to things like fascism, national socialism, so-called "radical" islam, terrorism, and various other items it is fashionable to dismiss out of hand.  Often as not when asked for their reasoning, you receive little reason and a great deal of propaganda regurgitated. 

(1) Asking for the proponent's reasoning isn't even a position, much less a "party line."

(2) I have received little reason and a great deal of propaganda regurgitated, ironically enough.

(3) See below:



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